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let me tell you something about black

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magic

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first it's quite real and second

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it's like fly paper you touch it

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you can never escape never escape an

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organization

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it

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who i would maintain

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is one of the most important

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figures in our who are we why are we

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here

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movie communion

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which was based on his new york times

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number one best-selling book of the same

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name which

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really doesn't even give it credit in

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terms of the significance it had to our

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culture but

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people have seen the same sort of things

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you have which group of aliens abducted

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you

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bob we are not victims we are

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participants

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so there's some pretty dark stuff there

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but

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whitley does offer a path forward

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a way out of the vortex there's only one

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way to escape and that is to

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live a life of love

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compassion and humility if you do not

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actively work on that

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you will not escape

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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i'm your host alex accaris and today we

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welcome whitley strieber to skeptic co

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he's here to talk about his new book

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which we have up on the screen there on

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amazon

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a new world very affordably priced i've

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got a little discount on mine but

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eight bucks just an unbelievably classic

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book but we'll get into that in a minute

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and uh we might also learn what's going

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on with his very

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excellent website unknown country

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and of course his podcast that i'm sure

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many of you have checked out at various

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times

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dreamland so you know

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before we jumped into all that i wanted

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to pause for a minute

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and bring a little bit of perspective to

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today's talk because you know as i've

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kind of said on this show there really

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are only two

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questions who are we and why are we here

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so if you go look at science that's all

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science really fundamentally is ever

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asking that's all philosophy is ever

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asking

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you might even say that's all religion

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is ever asking

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and if you look at those two questions

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and you look at this

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new now to close disclosed reality

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about the lights in the sky about the

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craft that has been video released on

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the

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times and

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all the the news rep news reporters

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it's on mainstream news everybody and if

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we

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think how fundamentally

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that has shifted that has answered

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or at least begun to answer those two

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questions who are we why are we here

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and then you ask yourself name one

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person

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the center

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of that monumental shift in all of

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history of answering those two questions

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paradigm shift now we have a whole new

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way of answering them

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whitley strieber has to be in there i

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mean he has to be i think he's the one

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but

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he's certainly one of the very few

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so there aren't a lot of uh seminal

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events

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in this kind of paradigm shift this new

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understanding of

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who we are and why we're here but maybe

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if we were just gonna pick out

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three of them randomly we'd say okay

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maybe

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roswell that certainly kind of was a

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paradigm shift no matter what you think

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about roswell no matter what your

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opinion is

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a second one would be the current

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disclosure i guess we could call it that

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we're going through that some people

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call it a psyop but it certainly is an

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official

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event would have to be

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the publication of whitley's book

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communion

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which if people don't remember because

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they're not

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older when communion

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was in the bookshelves back when they

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had bookstores

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it stopped people in their tracks

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they were not not mesmerized i was going

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to say but that isn't the correct word

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they were they were transformed

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by their real memories of things that

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had happened to them

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that's how significant that book was

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it shifted our whole perception

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of this phenomenon from a nuts

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and bolts technology phenomenon

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to an experiencer phenomenon

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whitley did that and then he changed it

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again

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along the way just by his own raw

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discovery and sharing that discovery

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with us

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he shifted it again to a consciousness

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centered experience saying that it's not

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just about the experience

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it's about what the experience means at

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that consciousness level

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and then finally if you've followed his

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work in the last few years

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he shifted it again in the most

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significant way from a

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consciousness centered which really

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means mind for a lot of people

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to an extended consciousness perspective

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the work with his departed wife anne

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and her near-death experience and then

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her after death communication

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and whitley's ongoing

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extended consciousness communication

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with these ones that he calls the

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visitors

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and what that means at a deep dare i say

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spiritual level but we have to because

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that's what it's at

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it's phenomenal phenomenal

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person in our in our history

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which we just don't we just don't

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appreciate it do you have any

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any thoughts on your position in all

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this your legacy position or anything

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like that

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yeah i certainly thought about it a lot

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uh you know

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how did i end up dropped into this

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particular

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bag i was uh not

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living a life that was connected with

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this in any way

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when i was uh when when it happened

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at least that's not i thought i wasn't

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but that wasn't the case uh

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and my father were involved in the

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in the whole secret world in some ways

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my uncle pretty much opened up to me and

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introduced me to general arthur

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excellent who

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and i based what they told me i based my

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novel majestic

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on what they told me about roswell in

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the aftermath

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of roswell and since then i've pretty

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well

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gotten the whole story straight so i

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have a

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a a really quite accurate timeline

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from there to here and uh

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the difficulty has been that i've been

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asked to keep

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secrets in in in some cases and

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there are therefore holes in the

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narrative

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and i'm hoping that i will get

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some kind of cloture

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on this at some point but as far as my

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personal life is concerned i wrote a

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book

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years ago called the secret school

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which is a sort of an exploration of

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strange childhood memories or are they

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memories i've never been sure

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some of them i'm pretty sure of

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ironically the

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one i'm most sure of i did not mention

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in the book because i didn't remember it

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when i was writing the book only later

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and that is that i was in some kind of

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very

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disturbing educational program

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as a little boy i thought at first it

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happened

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in 1947 when i was uh would have been

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three or four would have been four um

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but it actually happened in 1952

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and it involved yeah it using

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something called a skinner box exactly

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and uh i was

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very unsure about this memory

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until i mentioned it to a man who is in

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an

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different career path from mine

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a very successful man one of the world

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leaders in his field who also happens to

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be

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arguably my closest friend and

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we have been friends since childhood and

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our family friendship

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you know in the southeast and anywhere

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in the country for that matter

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these family friendships can go back a

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long time goes back three generations

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now

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and our kids and grandkids are the

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fourth and fifth generation so it's a

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long friendship

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and i trust him deeply i trust him i

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would trust him with my soul

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uh and i mentioned it to him and to my

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amazement he said well you know they

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tried to recruit me too

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i was seven when this happened

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he was not and and there's a great deal

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of difference between the mind of a

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seven-year-old and a nine-year-old

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he remembers very well being in the room

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when the two air force

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people a man and a woman who his parents

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knew they were friends

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tried to recruit him for the program and

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they

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extremely bright children

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and that there would only be a few

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people in san antonio selected for it

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only five or six children

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and uh he was one of them because they

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had that the air force had been behind

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the

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general eye general iq testing of

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children

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aren't you lucky aren't you the lucky

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not not really

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but and you know when i heard you when i

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heard you uh the first time i heard you

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tell this story

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i was stunned by the your openness

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about struggling to come to grips with

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it and how the account of your friend

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and his parents who basically said

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get the hell out of here you're not

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putting my son in any skin or box i

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don't care what you call it

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and what you keep adding to the story

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which is

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is just revealing more and more layers

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whitley it's not like you're adding

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anything to the story you're revealing

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more about the story but the two things

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i just want you to touch on about that

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story

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was uh number one that you're

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for it's a horrible word complicit but

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your family was complicit in this at a

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level that you didn't understand until

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you were much older

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so there was no option on their their

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part they had already kind of

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signed up for this and we don't even

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know what they had done before

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but i remember the other thing i

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remember about your story that was

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particularly

290
00:12:11,190 --> 00:12:09,760
poignant to me and and i want you to

291
00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:11,200
retell it if it's true but

292
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,959
you dressing up as your in your sunday

293
00:12:17,430 --> 00:12:14,480
best to you know

294
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:17,440
go for the special program and sitting

295
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:18,240
and waiting

296
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:20,160
and doing that for the first weekend but

297
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:21,760
then the second weekend

298
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,720
you had this like fear and panic and the

299
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:26,800
parents were like oh get ready

300
00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:28,800
we're all ready and you're like not even

301
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:30,880
knowing how to process that but saying

302
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:33,600
this is not something that's right or

303
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:34,160
good

304
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:38,240
or proper well first of all a couple of

305
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:41,120
logistical corrections it was thursday

306
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:43,360
nights not weekends

307
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:47,440
uh and it was and we were

308
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:50,880
when mother began to dress us

309
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:54,160
for this to get us to dress because she

310
00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:56,000
wanted us to look our best

311
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,480
my parents had no they had not been told

312
00:13:01,350 --> 00:13:00,240
the truth about what was happening i'm

313
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:01,360
sure

314
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:04,800
um let me let me go back to the strange

315
00:13:09,269 --> 00:13:07,680
one thing my father has to have been one

316
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:09,279
of the most tight-lipped human beings

317
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:10,880
who ever existed

318
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:14,480
he was very very

319
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:16,720
kept everything everything very close to

320
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:18,839
the chest but

321
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:22,399
um colonel guy hicks

322
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:26,320
who was the officer in command

323
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:29,360
uh when uh captain

324
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:34,320
mantell back in 19 in the early 50s

325
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:37,360
uh flew his mustang

326
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:40,880
toward a ufo and crashed

327
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:42,880
and it's a famous ufo incident the

328
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:45,120
mantel incident

329
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:48,320
his family ended up living just down

330
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:48,720
this

331
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:51,839
just just a block away from us and

332
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,959
my father and mother specifically sent

333
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:56,480
me over there

334
00:14:03,110 --> 00:13:59,760
to play with his children and i

335
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:03,120
remember perhaps them asking me

336
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:04,320
questions about it but i

337
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:07,360
i don't remember in any detail

338
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:09,760
but what was going on that he was even

339
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:10,560
there

340
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:14,079
down the street across the street from

341
00:14:18,069 --> 00:14:14,959
us

342
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:18,079
so something was up that and you're

343
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:19,440
right i think when you say there was

344
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:21,600
some kind of locomotion there

345
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:23,920
i don't think my parents realized how

346
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:24,959
traumatic this

347
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:27,519
was going to be they probably didn't

348
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:29,519
know what a skinner box was but the

349
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:31,120
other parents the

350
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:34,240
the husband was a trial lawyer

351
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:37,120
and he had been involved in a

352
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:39,040
brainwashing case and so he knew

353
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:41,440
everything there was to know about

354
00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:44,000
mind control and mind mind-changing

355
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:45,760
systems and so forth

356
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:49,279
so that was why they declined uh

357
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:52,160
to let their child go into this it was

358
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:52,720
pitched

359
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:55,839
to the parents as he tells me i don't

360
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:57,279
remember my parents never mentioned

361
00:15:02,389 --> 00:14:58,399
anything about

362
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:02,399
what they had been told uh as a real

363
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:05,440
honor you know that and

364
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:08,639
but they took my sister and a boy who

365
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:09,920
lived across the street

366
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:13,440
with us with me because

367
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:16,480
they what they were really going to do

368
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:21,120
was not pleasant and they they needed

369
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:24,320
i think they needed the the some

370
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:26,320
companionship for me because i think i

371
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:27,279
would have been

372
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:30,000
too panicked to function had i not had

373
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:30,560
other

374
00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:33,279
children who were familiar to me with me

375
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,639
as i recall

376
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:36,160
there may have been other children

377
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:38,720
involved i have all kinds of weird

378
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:42,560
half imaginary half maybe real memories

379
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:46,399
of uh of uh

380
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:48,320
that i don't discuss because they're too

381
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:49,600
vague and too

382
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,800
incendiary really but i do remember one

383
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:54,480
time being uh

384
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,880
so upset that they took me to the flight

385
00:16:02,550 --> 00:15:58,320
line

386
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:02,560
and uh now this did happen on a weekend

387
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:05,440
and they they dad took me out to the

388
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:07,199
base to the air force base

389
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:10,959
and uh they showed me around

390
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:13,680
and they were very nice to me and they

391
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:15,199
took me to the flight line

392
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:18,160
and let me sit in a saber jet and they

393
00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:19,839
were trying to

394
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:23,600
make my make me more comfortable there

395
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:27,120
and but that didn't work and

396
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:30,320
this the the program started in august

397
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:32,160
just before school started about two

398
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:33,600
weeks before school started

399
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:37,120
i think by october

400
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:38,880
my immune system had completely

401
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:40,880
collapsed and i was getting

402
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:43,600
sickness i i was getting cold after cold

403
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:45,519
disease after disease

404
00:16:51,749 --> 00:16:48,720
my mother took me to our doctor

405
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:51,759
and he told her that i had no white

406
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,519
blood cells

407
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,839
and she mentioned she talked about this

408
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:57,600
before and the result was that i was

409
00:17:02,829 --> 00:16:58,800
taken

410
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:02,839
not to uh uh

411
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:06,640
a hospital like a

412
00:17:12,309 --> 00:17:10,240
local like a local children's hospital

413
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:12,319
i was taken to brook general hospital

414
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:14,559
the military hospital

415
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:18,880
and i was isolated there for about uh

416
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:20,720
maybe three or four days i know mother

417
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:23,039
came and slept with me one night or

418
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:23,520
maybe

419
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:25,839
all nights i don't know and i was given

420
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:28,319
shots of glamour globulin

421
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:31,200
then i was taken home and not allowed to

422
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:33,120
go to school

423
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:35,120
and not allowed to see any other

424
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:36,880
children

425
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:40,240
until uh the until the january of that

426
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:41,280
year came i was

427
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:43,520
i was out of school until january that

428
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:44,559
was in october

429
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:47,600
and i was no longer in the program

430
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:51,919
so that's that that's what happened

431
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:55,760
i i attribute the visitors

432
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:59,039
coming into my life somehow or another

433
00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:00,640
to that program

434
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:02,640
tell me to kind of lay out a couple of

435
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:04,720
connections that i've stumbled upon

436
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:06,799
and i want you to comment them on

437
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,200
because you have

438
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:11,679
you've laid out these threads but i

439
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:14,000
appreciate that you are reluctant

440
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:17,600
to stitch things together in a neat and

441
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:18,880
tidy way

442
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:21,280
when it doesn't belong in a neat and

443
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:23,039
tidy way and i really respect that you

444
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:23,919
can't do that

445
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,440
then you're then you're living an

446
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:27,360
illusion

447
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:29,520
and and that's why we we trust you and

448
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:31,520
that's why you know in your book you

449
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:33,200
you say at the beginning that you're not

450
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:34,720
a liar and you don't

451
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:38,000
uh tolerate you don't tolerate liars

452
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:40,480
and i love that because that's what we

453
00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:41,039
need

454
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:43,520
so a couple of pieces to string together

455
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:45,039
here one of course is the

456
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:47,919
mk ultra program which all indications

457
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:48,320
would

458
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:50,559
seem to point to the fact that this was

459
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:51,840
part of the

460
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,840
mk ultra program people looked into it

461
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:55,520
know that you know it's not just a

462
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,480
couple of

463
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,640
doctors up there in canada fooling

464
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:00,799
around there are 150 programs

465
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,960
at least that we've traced before they

466
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:04,559
shut down all the information

467
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:07,440
many places throughout the united states

468
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:09,280
one of the little tidbits that i picked

469
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:10,000
up from

470
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:13,200
ufo researcher grant cameron who i

471
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:15,440
i like and respect and he had a great

472
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:16,799
point about the

473
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:20,080
wilbert smith memo that's pretty famous

474
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:21,919
and was released back in the 50s through

475
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:24,400
a freedom of information act

476
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:25,760
i won't repeat that sir because i've

477
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:27,520
told so many times and i'm sure you know

478
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:28,640
it but

479
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:31,440
you know he's a canadian he's working

480
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,320
the canadian weird desk if you will

481
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:37,120
and finally he enough ufo stuff piles up

482
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:38,160
on his desks

483
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:40,400
that he's he's tells his boss i need to

484
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,679
go down to the states

485
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:43,360
and he goes down and he meets fandom our

486
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:44,799
bush and he meets all these other guys

487
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:45,440
and they say

488
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,960
you got some good stuff so you're in the

489
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:48,400
club we can tell you a little bit about

490
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:49,600
what's going on

491
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:51,760
and they say yeah this is the main thing

492
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:52,799
the ufo thing

493
00:20:02,630 --> 00:19:59,190
pardon me but would he throw what

494
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:02,640
what is in the wilbert smith memo

495
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:04,720
to his boss that was never supposed to

496
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:06,000
be public

497
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:09,120
is the last sentence says

498
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:12,640
they understand it to be a mental

499
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:16,000
phenomenon and are pursuing it

500
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:19,520
in those lines and he suspects and i

501
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:20,960
agree with him

502
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:24,320
that the rise and the impetus for the

503
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:27,440
mk ultra program was at least

504
00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:30,240
partially if not significantly driven by

505
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:31,520
the fact

506
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:34,000
that they had made some kind of contact

507
00:20:38,830 --> 00:20:35,919
and they had immediately

508
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,840
had to give up this idea of this

509
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:40,320
materialistic

510
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:43,360
you are a biological robot

511
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:45,120
in a meaning it because they were

512
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:48,159
speaking or communicating telepathically

513
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,960
and then they in typical military

514
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,799
fashion then it became okay how do we do

515
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:54,960
it how do we weaponize it

516
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:56,880
and so that's one thread i want you to

517
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:58,799
pick up on but the other thread that's

518
00:21:02,310 --> 00:20:59,919
really sad

519
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:02,320
is the splitting is the disassociative

520
00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:03,039
identity

521
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:05,440
disorder and the weaponization of that

522
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:06,320
as we've learned

523
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:09,520
through cult practices through satanic

524
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,960
ritual abuse practices

525
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:12,720
in the very real way that we study it

526
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:14,559
among criminals who do that

527
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:18,000
that this is somehow in some way we

528
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:19,919
don't completely understand

529
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:23,280
a tool a mechanism to crack

530
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:26,960
people open to somehow make them more

531
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,480
pliable in this extended consciousness

532
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:32,240
realm that again we don't completely

533
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:33,200
understand

534
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:37,120
well i think that what happened to me

535
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,760
in that three or four month period

536
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:43,440
cracked the cosmic egg i know it

537
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,360
shattered my sister and it shattered the

538
00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:47,039
boy from across the street

539
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:50,240
it ruined their lives and i attribute

540
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:51,280
they both had

541
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:54,240
very difficult lives and i attributed to

542
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,799
this

543
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:56,400
because i don't see there's anything

544
00:22:01,990 --> 00:21:58,159
else to explain it

545
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:02,000
it was a very placid normal 1950s

546
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,640
neighborhood

547
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:03,760
you know in other words there was

548
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:05,679
nothing there except

549
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:09,520
this that to make them what they became

550
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:13,919
and uh the boy across the street

551
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:17,360
lived at home he barely he

552
00:22:20,789 --> 00:22:20,159
had sort of a marriage but he was he

553
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:20,799
lived in

554
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:23,440
in the in the room he grew up in until

555
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:24,960
the day he died

556
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:28,080
at 53 and

557
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:31,760
he was interviewed by edward conroy

558
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:35,520
and he mentioned remembering

559
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:38,960
something about our childhood that i

560
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,000
think

561
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:42,960
was verifying in a way that somebody

562
00:22:47,029 --> 00:22:44,480
didn't like

563
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:47,039
and that's my theory because it of

564
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:47,919
course

565
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:49,520
what i'm going to tell you is involves a

566
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:51,360
va hospital so it could have just been

567
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:56,159
malpractice but uh he fell off a ladder

568
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:58,159
and went to the va hospital and they

569
00:23:03,990 --> 00:22:59,280
loaded him up

570
00:23:06,149 --> 00:23:04,000
with so much uh cortisone that he died

571
00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:06,159
and i don't know if they murdered him or

572
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:07,600
it was malpractice could have been

573
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:08,720
either

574
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:12,320
um but uh

575
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:16,720
the and my sister had a very difficult

576
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:21,760
life she could never settle somehow

577
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:24,159
to my knowledge neither of them had any

578
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:24,799
memory

579
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:28,080
of the events that took place in

580
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:31,679
uh in randolph and i'm

581
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,320
they both died before i r but my the um

582
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:38,880
neighbor died before i remembered it and

583
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,520
my sister

584
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:41,440
didn't have any memory of it i asked her

585
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:43,679
about it when she was alive she's passed

586
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:45,039
on now

587
00:23:51,590 --> 00:23:48,080
but what i think is this

588
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:51,600
with regard to mk ultra

589
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:55,440
when the files were released

590
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:58,720
the judge ordered or allowed

591
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:02,000
the withholding of a quite a number of

592
00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:04,080
records which are still classified

593
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,320
and still are hidden away at this point

594
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:08,000
i'm not sure they can be legally

595
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,320
classified anymore

596
00:24:15,669 --> 00:24:12,720
i think it was 44 boxes of files in

597
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:15,679
other words a lot of files

598
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,039
i believe that these files

599
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:21,360
probably included maybe among other

600
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:22,960
things

601
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:26,000
uh material about

602
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:29,039
this type of program and they were

603
00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:32,159
withheld because it was so incendiary

604
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:34,880
that children had been involved but

605
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:35,360
children

606
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:38,480
still are involved it's not over

607
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:41,600
it's not over and you know and you talk

608
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:42,240
about

609
00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:45,360
ritual abuse and the bizarre

610
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,320
story of the finders comes to mind which

611
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:49,919
you may have discussed on your show

612
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:50,720
before

613
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,799
that yeah you're nodding so i won't go

614
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:54,480
into it in too much detail

615
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:56,799
but i know an enormous amount about it

616
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:02,470
in this program was very like in some

617
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:03,919
ways i think what

618
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:07,039
what was done to us and what was so

619
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:14,870
was when i read the finder's material

620
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:16,960
first when it first showed up

621
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:21,039
years ago back in the in the in the 80s

622
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:27,190
of course but then later when i

623
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:28,320
remembered my

624
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:31,520
experiences more clearly back in the in

625
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:33,039
the late 90s

626
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,360
of randolph there was more to it than

627
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:37,919
that there was also a trip to mexico

628
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:40,880
to monterey when would when does that

629
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:43,279
fit into the time frame

630
00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:48,559
uh i'm not sure i i must have been

631
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:50,320
it must have been during that same

632
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:53,679
period probably in my seventh year

633
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:56,320
uh and it was in the it was i remember

634
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:57,120
the flight

635
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:00,320
was very exciting to me because we

636
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:03,440
i believe we drew drove to el paso to uh

637
00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,799
laredo and then flew to monterey but it

638
00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:08,720
was on a wonderful

639
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:11,440
one of those old ford tri-motors an old

640
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:13,440
airplane which in those days were still

641
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:15,200
flying in mexico

642
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:17,600
uh you know they were not you know this

643
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:19,440
was this was the early 50s and so they

644
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:21,600
were still in operation

645
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:28,710
in any case in the finders material you

646
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:30,480
will find that the children said that

647
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:31,360
they were

648
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:42,080
and that shocked me and frightened me

649
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,200
and the reason is i have

650
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:47,120
which i am not going to go into detail

651
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:49,600
about because i don't know their

652
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:53,039
their their their their locomotion

653
00:26:58,470 --> 00:26:54,720
within my mind

654
00:27:02,789 --> 00:26:58,480
i have horrifying memories of that place

655
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:02,799
uh when i went to mexico with my wife

656
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:06,000
some years ago uh

657
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,919
we stopped in monterey we stayed at the

658
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:09,760
same hotel i had stayed in with my

659
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:10,960
sister and dad the

660
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:13,520
grand and sarah really why did you

661
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:15,760
choose to do that

662
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:19,120
i wanted to well we were going to uh

663
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:22,880
meet friends in um in mexico we i

664
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:25,039
i'm part mexican so i have a lot of

665
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:27,120
mexican friends friends and family

666
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:29,840
but why go back to that same hotel was

667
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:30,960
it closure for you

668
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:34,080
i was trying to i was trying to reignite

669
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:34,960
the memories

670
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:37,600
i did it very intentionally and then i

671
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,480
also drove

672
00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:40,559
up and down the streets in the hills

673
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:42,159
above monterey

674
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,240
trying to uh trying to find the place

675
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:48,000
frankly and i never did i didn't find

676
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,240
anything that that uh

677
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:55,279
that that was connected that that

678
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:58,240
that's struck any familiar chord in my

679
00:28:02,310 --> 00:28:00,159
mind i didn't see anything

680
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:02,320
that i would say was that that though

681
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:03,919
that was the place that was what i was

682
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,279
trying i was trying to re

683
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:07,840
to to reconnect with with buried

684
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:09,440
memories basically

685
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:14,480
um and i failed uh

686
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:17,840
but i i'm sure that it that happened

687
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:22,080
and if it was if the memories i have of

688
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:23,840
it are true

689
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:26,559
then it was an absolute nightmare and

690
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,000
the purpose of it would have been

691
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:33,279
to cause the children to

692
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:36,320
feel guilty

693
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:39,760
and to therefore uh

694
00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:45,510
cement their loyalty i wrote a book

695
00:28:49,029 --> 00:28:45,919
called

696
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:49,039
in hitler's house uh under a

697
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:53,120
pseudonym of jonathan lane which

698
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:55,200
mentions something that hitler called

699
00:29:03,590 --> 00:28:56,880
blootkit

700
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:08,070
blood uh loyalty

701
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:12,000
and the way this worked was

702
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:16,799
when a person was inducted into the ss

703
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:20,080
they were made to do something really

704
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:23,919
really terrible that everyone else had

705
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:25,360
done

706
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:27,279
in the group and then they it made them

707
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:29,120
feel part of the group

708
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,960
and they had a horrible secret so

709
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,720
terrible they could never tell anyone

710
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,480
this is also what was used in the

711
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:36,559
recruiting of children in uh

712
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:39,600
in uh africa in

713
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:42,480
in the wars that used child armies i

714
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:43,679
mean this is a standard

715
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:46,240
standard playbook gangs blood in blood

716
00:29:49,909 --> 00:29:47,520
out uh

717
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:49,919
you know every criminal organization has

718
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,600
picked up on it it's been around for a

719
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:53,200
long time doesn't make it

720
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:56,080
better or anything like that no but it

721
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:56,880
it was

722
00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:00,480
hitler himself

723
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:02,000
can i interject a question because when

724
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:03,840
you're talking about the finders and i

725
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:04,480
don't want to

726
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:07,600
trace that whole history for people can

727
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:08,159
go back

728
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:10,159
and find it in this show and in other

729
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:11,200
places and

730
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,640
john brisson was the guy we've

731
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:14,480
interviewed who's done some terrific

732
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:15,200
work

733
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:18,000
original research interviewing uh

734
00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:20,720
martinez who is the customs officer

735
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:24,399
his partner in dc who kind of crack the

736
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:26,240
case

737
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:27,679
here's what's interesting about the

738
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:30,960
finders which i'd like you to speak to

739
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:34,240
is the horror the weaponization

740
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,080
i don't take horror out of it because it

741
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:38,080
immediately throws people off

742
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,799
the weaponization of these extended

743
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:42,640
consciousness realms

744
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:45,120
bleeds together into multiple purposes

745
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:46,320
like you're saying

746
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:49,760
one hey it it silences people they're

747
00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:51,200
bonded now they can't

748
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:52,799
they're bonded through fear they're

749
00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:55,279
traumatized and they can't do that

750
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:57,519
it also creates a situation where you

751
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:58,799
know in the finders

752
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:01,760
cult we can now find hey isn't this a

753
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:02,720
tool to

754
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:05,039
blackmail other people you know and the

755
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:07,120
would do a jeffrey epstein brownstoning

756
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:08,799
operation way back then which they were

757
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:09,440
doing

758
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:12,960
but again cross purposes but the third

759
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:16,159
aspect of it which i think is really

760
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:16,840
most

761
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:20,080
intriguing to me and i suspect it is to

762
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:21,519
you too because i've seen your writing

763
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:22,720
on it

764
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:26,080
is the breaking open the cracking

765
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:30,080
open in order to create

766
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,200
an entry point for

767
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:35,360
extended consciousness including the

768
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:36,240
visitors

769
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:38,559
including what we would call demonic

770
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:39,279
beings

771
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:42,240
and again this is i interviewed you know

772
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:42,640
dr

773
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:44,640
tom zinzer as a clinical psychologist in

774
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:47,600
grand rapids michigan who worked

775
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:50,399
20 years with a lot of people with

776
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:52,559
dissociative identity disorder and many

777
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:54,240
many of them satanic ritual abuse

778
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,320
victims and that is exactly his finding

779
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,720
is that that's why they do it they

780
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:00,240
intentionally try and create

781
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:03,440
this did situation because

782
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:05,760
without even fully understanding it they

783
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:07,039
know it creates

784
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:10,799
an entry point and i i wonder if we were

785
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:13,120
as horrible as it is if our intelligence

786
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:14,399
organizations had

787
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:16,240
halfway figured that out and we're

788
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:17,760
fooling around with

789
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:22,080
how to create that that entry point

790
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:23,760
you know let me let me tell you

791
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:26,080
something about black magic

792
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:29,120
first it's quite real and second

793
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:32,960
it's like fly paper you touch it

794
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:36,960
you can never escape can never escape

795
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:39,760
an organization touches it that

796
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:42,240
organization is part of it

797
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:46,240
every country a country too

798
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:49,519
and it it the more you try to escape

799
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:50,640
from it

800
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,159
the deeper you get there's only one way

801
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:56,000
to escape

802
00:33:03,750 --> 00:32:59,600
and that is to live a life

803
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:03,760
of love compassion and humility

804
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:06,960
if you do not actively work

805
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:10,399
on that you will

806
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:14,080
not escape and you have these

807
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:18,799
this whole community of people who are

808
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:21,840
who are so arrogant i know many

809
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,480
people in intelligence work i grew up in

810
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:26,640
a family that was involved in it for

811
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:27,919
god's sakes

812
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:31,200
and it makes people arrogant

813
00:33:35,830 --> 00:33:35,039
to if if you can if you can know secrets

814
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:35,840
that your

815
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:39,279
neighbor can't know it feeds the ego

816
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:42,480
in a very sick way

817
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:46,720
you have to work hard to be humble

818
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:49,840
you know the first lesson the visitors

819
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:51,600
when the visitors really started to work

820
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:57,909
the first lesson was a lesson in

821
00:34:02,870 --> 00:33:59,360
humility

822
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:02,880
now the dark side is extremely clever

823
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:06,000
and it would know that i might be drawn

824
00:34:13,030 --> 00:34:09,599
in to accepting it

825
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:13,040
as not the dark side because

826
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:16,320
it gave me lessons in things like

827
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:17,520
humility

828
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,200
and compassion but you have to

829
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:24,240
live those lessons and it might

830
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:26,879
it very well give you those lessons in

831
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:29,200
an effort to recruit you

832
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:32,720
into something very dark in or to trick

833
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,320
you into believing it's

834
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,480
the demons want to trick you into

835
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:38,399
believing their angels

836
00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:42,000
but if you get deeper than that

837
00:34:47,829 --> 00:34:45,040
you find you're in control

838
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:47,839
you can control it and these all of

839
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:48,720
these

840
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,000
asses who were trying and

841
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:55,119
are trying to basically engage the dark

842
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:55,599
side

843
00:34:59,510 --> 00:34:58,160
on behalf of the united states of

844
00:35:02,550 --> 00:34:59,520
america

845
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:02,560
have failed in that respect in my

846
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:03,359
opinion

847
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:06,000
and you keep seeing little things bleed

848
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:06,480
out

849
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:09,760
like the like the jeffrey epstein stuff

850
00:35:16,150 --> 00:35:10,720
and the

851
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:16,160
recruitment that took place for years

852
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:17,760
inside the catholic church

853
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:22,480
which has been been publicly exposed

854
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:26,960
as ritual abuse but the but the deeper

855
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:28,800
processes of recruitment that were

856
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,800
involved have never been publicly

857
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:32,560
exposed and probably never will be but

858
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:32,880
they

859
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:36,079
epstein

860
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:40,240
case what happened to all of the videos

861
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:43,280
there's a silence has come about that

862
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,400
who has them i remember back years and

863
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:47,839
years ago

864
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:50,560
you know my family had a lot of

865
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:51,920
connections politically

866
00:35:59,670 --> 00:35:56,960
in texas and there was much laughter

867
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:59,680
about the fact that lbj had gotten a

868
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:00,880
hold

869
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:03,920
of some film

870
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:07,440
of uh j edgar hoover

871
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:10,480
dancing around in a dress

872
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:14,400
and that film resulted in

873
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:17,520
johnson getting a hold of all of

874
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:21,040
hoover's files hoover's secret files on

875
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:21,839
politics

876
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:26,240
johnson took over from hoover basically

877
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:29,359
and uh uh then later

878
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:30,880
of course it was revealed it was all

879
00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:32,400
quite true and hoover

880
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:34,720
was a cross-dresser and there were big

881
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:37,119
parties fbi parties with cross-dressing

882
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:38,880
and stuff

883
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,440
people who do those things there's

884
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:43,599
nothing wrong with it now

885
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:47,280
in other words we we've we've

886
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:52,000
we've uh we've disenfranchised

887
00:36:58,069 --> 00:36:55,920
that as an evil act but in those days it

888
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:58,079
was extremely secret and considered

889
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:00,800
very very perverse and bizarre and

890
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:02,320
that's how the people who

891
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,880
needed to do it these poor people

892
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,480
thought of themselves including someone

893
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:08,560
like hoover um

894
00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:11,200
and uh yeah but i i think hoover was was

895
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:12,160
pretty dark

896
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:14,800
in other ways too it's not just a guy

897
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:15,760
who like

898
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:18,960
you know so he he like so many

899
00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:21,599
of those victims became a perpetrator

900
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:22,320
right i mean

901
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:25,680
alex it's ego ego ego ego

902
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:29,280
you have to work hard to understand

903
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:32,240
that you are not your ego what you're

904
00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:33,040
talking about

905
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:35,119
is your spiritual journey in your

906
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:36,720
spiritual practice

907
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:39,119
and i think we should be explicit about

908
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:41,440
that because it's it's ego in the sense

909
00:37:48,310 --> 00:37:44,560
that ego is getting in the way of your

910
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:48,320
true divine love-filled

911
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:51,040
spirit but i know you you know that hit

912
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:52,720
let me let me direct you to

913
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:55,599
a couple of questions that i think are

914
00:38:00,310 --> 00:37:56,720
from your book

915
00:38:03,750 --> 00:38:00,320
a new world which again is phenomenal

916
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:03,760
it's seminal it's 150 pages you can get

917
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:04,160
more

918
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:07,359
in 150 pages here to

919
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:09,680
kind of turn your world upside down

920
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:10,480
again

921
00:38:14,470 --> 00:38:11,920
you know even if it's already turned

922
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:14,480
upside down in a good way

923
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:16,400
but one of the things that people you've

924
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:17,599
returned to this already in our

925
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:19,200
conversation you've touched on this two

926
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:20,160
or three times

927
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:22,160
but it's a question that i know pops up

928
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:23,440
it did for me

929
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:26,160
whenever i hear you talk and whenever i

930
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:26,480
hear

931
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:30,000
your journey from being

932
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:32,720
you know not just horrified but uh

933
00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:34,720
completely

934
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,000
outraged at the at the visitors um

935
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:40,560
mad at the visitors scared as hell at

936
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:41,520
the visitors

937
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:44,000
to kind of a different kind of evolving

938
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:45,520
relationship with the visitors but what

939
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:46,000
is at the

940
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:49,200
center of this is the quote from a new

941
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:50,400
world is

942
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:54,320
when a shark devours an innocent swimmer

943
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:57,040
it is terrible but it isn't evil it's

944
00:39:01,430 --> 00:38:59,200
just nature being nature

945
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:01,440
the same thing holds true when a person

946
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:04,160
is attacked in the night

947
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:06,880
their spine extracted and their

948
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:07,760
energetic

949
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:11,359
body captured it's just nature being

950
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:12,880
nature

951
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:15,839
yeah that that particular passage is

952
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:16,320
about

953
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:19,760
something that i'm fairly sure happened

954
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:22,880
and happens it is a

955
00:39:26,829 --> 00:39:25,040
where and it's related to the cattle

956
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:26,839
mutilations

957
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:30,640
where the um

958
00:39:36,069 --> 00:39:33,839
when the visitors some will sometimes

959
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:36,079
take me out of my body

960
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:39,119
and when they do that i can feel a

961
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:43,760
shock going down my spine as the

962
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:47,040
places between that that hold this

963
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:49,760
the elect of electromagnetic body if you

964
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:51,520
will or the second body

965
00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:54,560
to the first body are opened and then

966
00:40:02,550 --> 00:39:58,480
i come right out and i'm still conscious

967
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:02,560
i'm well able to function in the world

968
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:05,280
uh i can be seen often by people i've

969
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:06,960
interacted with people

970
00:40:10,309 --> 00:40:09,599
i uh was seen by linda howell much to

971
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:10,319
her

972
00:40:16,309 --> 00:40:13,359
annoyance one time i've been seen and

973
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:16,319
interacted with other people as well so

974
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:16,720
it's

975
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:22,640
now there are predatory levels of this

976
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:23,520
whole thing

977
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:26,880
there's a whole world outside of the

978
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:28,000
physical world

979
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,359
a bigger world filled with entities

980
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:33,280
and i think some of those entities are

981
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:34,400
just like

982
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:36,720
sharks i mean they're like they're like

983
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:38,720
almost almost not

984
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:41,200
not they're let's call them brilliant

985
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:42,560
animals

986
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:45,119
and they will they will attack people

987
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:46,800
they are predators

988
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:48,720
they attack cattle then they

989
00:40:51,430 --> 00:40:50,800
occasionally attack human beings i think

990
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:51,440
that

991
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:53,839
when they're they do attack human beings

992
00:40:58,950 --> 00:40:55,520
if they are stopped

993
00:41:01,990 --> 00:40:58,960
uh i i think that there's a case

994
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:02,000
uh there that the cases i mentioned in

995
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:04,480
a new world i think happened i think

996
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:06,319
they happened in brooklyn

997
00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:10,319
and i and i uh i can't say much

998
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:12,640
much about them because they're so

999
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:14,720
they're so buried

1000
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:16,880
but i don't think they happen all that

1001
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:19,040
often i think they happen from time to

1002
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:20,000
time

1003
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:22,079
when people are vulnerable but a

1004
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:23,119
particularly

1005
00:41:29,829 --> 00:41:26,640
type of people these were all people

1006
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:29,839
who had kind of no lives in other words

1007
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:30,640
they had

1008
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:32,960
they were street people they didn't have

1009
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:34,880
any associations any

1010
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:37,520
any friends or anything like that and

1011
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:38,400
they

1012
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:42,960
taken

1013
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:46,160
their spines were damaged in this way

1014
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:48,079
that would have as soon as you damage

1015
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,520
the spine that way

1016
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:51,359
that second body is going to come right

1017
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:53,440
out and if somebody is there who knows

1018
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:54,720
how to capture it

1019
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:57,760
they will or they can and they use it as

1020
00:42:02,309 --> 00:41:59,599
a form of energy

1021
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:02,319
they eat it apparently what about the

1022
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:02,960
sexual

1023
00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:05,200
assault that is reported over and over

1024
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:06,319
again

1025
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:09,520
i experienced it i i know you did i i i

1026
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:10,720
totally i totally

1027
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:13,280
understand that you did and there's so

1028
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:14,880
there's also

1029
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:16,880
um it's might be easier to even talk

1030
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:18,240
about other cases

1031
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:19,520
other than your own but you're welcome

1032
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:21,839
to talk about your case

1033
00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:23,920
i know loads of cases i've got hundreds

1034
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:25,280
of them in my files

1035
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:27,440
what do you make of that particularly it

1036
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:29,119
it just starts looking as a

1037
00:42:35,190 --> 00:42:32,480
as below so above i mean uh

1038
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:35,200
publicly in in this extended realm

1039
00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:36,319
publicly

1040
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:38,640
uh sexually assaulting someone

1041
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:40,000
dominating someone

1042
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:43,520
uh shifting all that kind of stuff

1043
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:45,920
it is deception right after the

1044
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:47,599
communion experience i wrote a

1045
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:50,240
short story called pain which is about

1046
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:51,920
sexual domination

1047
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:55,119
because i was felt i had never felt

1048
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,720
anything like sexual domination

1049
00:43:00,309 --> 00:42:58,640
being dominated sexually before in my

1050
00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:00,319
life until that night

1051
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:03,040
and that's exactly how i felt i mean

1052
00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:03,440
they

1053
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:06,960
with a

1054
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:13,280
like a it's called an electro stimulator

1055
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:14,720
um

1056
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:18,079
they they extracted semen from me

1057
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:21,040
uh you talk about and i was totally in

1058
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:23,200
completely helpless the whole time

1059
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:25,359
it was sexual domination there's no

1060
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:27,760
question about that's what it was

1061
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:30,880
but i i came to a point

1062
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:34,640
where i had to make a choice

1063
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:37,119
i knew they were at this point that they

1064
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:37,760
were real

1065
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:39,680
and they were either permanently part of

1066
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:40,880
the physical world

1067
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:42,960
and very clever at concealing themselves

1068
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:44,880
or they were something else

1069
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:46,720
that would project themselves into the

1070
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:48,240
physical world

1071
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:51,200
i still can't tell you which exactly is

1072
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,079
the case

1073
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,240
although i think that it's probably a

1074
00:43:59,109 --> 00:43:56,400
mix of

1075
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,119
there's probably a spectrum of of this

1076
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:01,040
of some kind

1077
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:03,599
but i had to make a choice either i was

1078
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:04,240
going to

1079
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:07,280
try to see what they were all about

1080
00:44:10,550 --> 00:44:10,240
and to see if they would engage with me

1081
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:10,560
on

1082
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:14,160
some more acceptable level

1083
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,720
or not and that's why i started walking

1084
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:17,920
out in the woods in the middle of the

1085
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:19,040
night

1086
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:20,800
knowing what had happened to me at that

1087
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:22,079
point i knew very well

1088
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:24,800
what they had done and i did not know

1089
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,160
whether or not

1090
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:28,079
i would ever come back when i went out

1091
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:30,000
there because i thought they were

1092
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:31,599
incredibly dangerous

1093
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:34,480
and i still do i don't think that there

1094
00:44:38,550 --> 00:44:36,319
it's all sweetness and light and

1095
00:44:39,670 --> 00:44:38,560
you know you have these people out there

1096
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:39,680
who who are

1097
00:44:44,069 --> 00:44:42,160
basically kind of blaming us because

1098
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:44,079
we're scared then they're

1099
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:47,040
you know you have you have a lot of

1100
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:49,119
people in the ufo community

1101
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:52,960
who do ce fives and so forth

1102
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:54,160
who are saying that they're all

1103
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:56,480
sweetness and light but these are also

1104
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:57,760
people who had

1105
00:45:02,309 --> 00:45:00,560
have very little empathy for other human

1106
00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:02,319
beings in my opinion

1107
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:04,160
because it's not all sweetness and light

1108
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:06,319
it's a hard experience

1109
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:09,520
and making it i've tried my best to make

1110
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:09,920
it

1111
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:13,440
something of value for me but

1112
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:17,200
boy i'm telling you right now i'm not

1113
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:20,240
i don't trust the visitors i trust

1114
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:24,000
my innate goodness as a human being that

1115
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:24,480
i do

1116
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:28,800
not

1117
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:32,160
trust their various attempts

1118
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:35,440
to make themselves seem more angelic to

1119
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:36,319
me

1120
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:39,440
i think that they got caught in a dark

1121
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:40,319
vortex

1122
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:43,040
a long time ago some of them did and

1123
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:43,599
they are

1124
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:47,040
trapped in it and i'm not there i am not

1125
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:48,000
trapped in it

1126
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:50,880
and i am also not involved i do not have

1127
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:52,880
stockholm syndrome at all

1128
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:55,920
i've i've worried about that a lot

1129
00:46:01,829 --> 00:45:58,000
because i don't want to be an apologist

1130
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:01,839
for monsters and

1131
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:06,400
frankly you can you can make a choice

1132
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:09,440
you can take what they have to

1133
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:13,040
dish out and make it your own

1134
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:17,680
and make it part of your growth and your

1135
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:20,480
your exploration of your own ethical

1136
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:22,079
journey

1137
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:25,520
or you can fall into a trap which is you

1138
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:28,000
can decide that they're really angels

1139
00:46:32,069 --> 00:46:30,319
or you can decide that there are demons

1140
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:32,079
and i don't want a goddamn thing to do

1141
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:34,560
with them you can do those things

1142
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:38,720
i chose the other path the middle path

1143
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:41,119
you know there's so many uh profound

1144
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:42,000
points to that

1145
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:44,319
that we're not going to be able to get

1146
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:45,599
into but

1147
00:46:50,069 --> 00:46:48,960
profound profound the vortex of evil

1148
00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:50,079
that they are

1149
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:52,640
found themselves in and are ultimately

1150
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:54,240
trying to get out of and i would tie

1151
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:56,240
that back to your fly paper

1152
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,520
comment that we may be entering in

1153
00:47:03,030 --> 00:47:01,680
that same vortex and we'll find

1154
00:47:06,069 --> 00:47:03,040
ourselves trying to find

1155
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:06,079
our way out of it which maybe we are

1156
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:07,359
maybe we're not even to the point where

1157
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:09,040
we realize we do need to find our way

1158
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:09,599
out of it

1159
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:11,760
the question i ask because i've

1160
00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:12,960
interviewed so many near-death

1161
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:14,720
experience researchers and i've found

1162
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:15,359
that

1163
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:20,319
point with over 200 peer-reviewed papers

1164
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:23,599
so meaningful to not only me if somebody

1165
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,240
who's never

1166
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:26,400
ex never had a near-death experience i

1167
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:28,319
know your wife did i know it was

1168
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,800
key to her spiritual journey and maybe

1169
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:32,160
we could talk about that

1170
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:34,240
but the let one of the lessons we get

1171
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:35,440
from the near-death

1172
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:39,359
experience is that it is about

1173
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:42,880
this journey to and through the light

1174
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:45,599
and that what i find profound profound

1175
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:46,240
about that

1176
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:49,119
is the idea that yes you will be judged

1177
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:50,480
you will be judged for

1178
00:47:58,230 --> 00:47:54,480
every action every thought every deed

1179
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:58,240
but not by someone else but by yourself

1180
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:00,960
by your soul by that voice that has

1181
00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:03,040
always been with us

1182
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:04,960
from the time we're a little kid where

1183
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:06,160
we know

1184
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:08,720
what's right and what's wrong so in the

1185
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:09,359
book

1186
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:13,040
a new world you have a gran

1187
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:16,400
just an opening here that we

1188
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:18,240
you will you will not close which you

1189
00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:19,440
shouldn't close because we don't have

1190
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:21,200
any complete closure on it but here's

1191
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:26,150
what we would appear to be looking at

1192
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:27,280
then

1193
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:29,920
in both the close encounter and the

1194
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:32,480
near-death experiences

1195
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:36,960
is a massive increase in initiation

1196
00:48:40,950 --> 00:48:38,880
so do you want to speak about uh

1197
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:40,960
near-death experience its connection or

1198
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:42,720
anything else there

1199
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:44,720
well i would like to first speak about

1200
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:45,839
initiation

1201
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:53,680
is not fun uh

1202
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:55,839
all the way back to the beginning of

1203
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:56,960
initiatory

1204
00:49:01,910 --> 00:48:59,839
activities in this world a real

1205
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:01,920
initiation

1206
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:04,960
involves a real challenge

1207
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:08,800
of death when jesus says

1208
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:13,359
uh he talks about in various ways

1209
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:16,480
of dying to this world and then you will

1210
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:19,760
never taste of death again what he's

1211
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:20,880
talking about is

1212
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:23,920
an initiatory experience

1213
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:28,079
that causes you to

1214
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:31,920
face and live through

1215
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:35,520
death and come out on the other side

1216
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:39,359
knowing that you that there is

1217
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:42,480
more to this to this experience than the

1218
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:43,119
physical

1219
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:46,559
world and that's exactly what happened

1220
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:47,680
to ann

1221
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:50,800
she went she had a massive

1222
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:53,839
stroke she

1223
00:49:57,990 --> 00:49:56,559
was i was told by the doctors on the

1224
00:50:00,390 --> 00:49:58,000
night they brought her in that she would

1225
00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:00,400
not last until the morning

1226
00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:03,920
but they saved her they did it it wasn't

1227
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:06,079
a miracle it was medical

1228
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:09,119
skill and they brought her all the way

1229
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:10,160
back

1230
00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:13,200
from the other side of death

1231
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:16,079
to this life again and she had a

1232
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:18,400
near-death experience in the

1233
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:22,160
in the um in in this

1234
00:50:26,309 --> 00:50:24,960
process it wasn't a classic near-death

1235
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:26,319
experience

1236
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:27,920
going into the light of seeing the light

1237
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,400
etc and so forth it was much more

1238
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:32,720
down to earth and ann like she ended up

1239
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:34,079
in a bus station

1240
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:37,200
which which where she was seeing

1241
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:39,359
saw people all sitting on benches with

1242
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:42,160
big parcels in their hands

1243
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:43,920
and she didn't have anything in her

1244
00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:45,680
hands and she was told she could either

1245
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:46,880
go on

1246
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:49,280
or come back if she wished and she

1247
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:51,359
decided to come back

1248
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:54,000
and after that she was no longer afraid

1249
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:55,680
of death in any way

1250
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:58,800
when it came time for her to

1251
00:51:02,309 --> 00:51:01,440
go her body was collapsing i mean her

1252
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:02,319
brain was

1253
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:05,359
she was having stroke after stroke

1254
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:09,119
because of cancer the result of

1255
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:11,599
they're being unable to take a tumor

1256
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:13,280
entirely out of her brain

1257
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,800
and the weight of the tumor was

1258
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:16,319
destroying her brain

1259
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:19,359
and she had lost lost the entire right

1260
00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:20,400
side of her body

1261
00:51:29,829 --> 00:51:28,559
she said to me one day in july of 2015

1262
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:29,839
whitley it's time

1263
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:32,880
i'm going and i said

1264
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:35,920
i was just heartbroken of course because

1265
00:51:41,349 --> 00:51:37,760
i wanted anne with me

1266
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:41,359
physically in any form she happened to

1267
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:42,160
be

1268
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:44,880
sick or healthy but i could well

1269
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,720
understand she couldn't even get up out

1270
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:48,000
of bed she had to be helped

1271
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:50,400
to do everything and that would be the

1272
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:51,359
case

1273
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:54,079
until something ghastly happened like

1274
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:54,400
she

1275
00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:58,160
became locked in or uh her lungs stopped

1276
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:00,400
working and she died of suffocation

1277
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:04,400
and so i called hospice

1278
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:06,800
and they came and they talked to anne

1279
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:08,000
and at that point i was

1280
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:10,160
i had to be out of the picture legally

1281
00:52:14,069 --> 00:52:11,040
we didn't have

1282
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:14,079
you you didn't have you had to you had

1283
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:14,640
to

1284
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:22,160
the supreme court had decided

1285
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:25,119
if you did that then you had the right

1286
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:25,599
to

1287
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:31,520
that's what she did and she only lasted

1288
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:34,319
a few days and those were the hardest

1289
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:37,920
and most extraordinary days of my life

1290
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:40,770
she came back she died at 7 15

1291
00:52:44,549 --> 00:52:41,920
[Music]

1292
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:44,559
she began reconnecting with me through

1293
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:45,119
friends

1294
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:47,839
at 9 30 that night she didn't come

1295
00:52:51,910 --> 00:52:49,280
directly to me because she knew

1296
00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:51,920
i was too hard-headed i would never

1297
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:53,520
believed it

1298
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:57,280
but now i have learned

1299
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:00,640
how to share this body with her

1300
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:03,520
she can use it this is why symbolically

1301
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,319
i wear both

1302
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:06,720
rings because as far as i'm concerned

1303
00:53:11,190 --> 00:53:08,160
we're still married

1304
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:11,200
we're just down to this one body anyway

1305
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:13,200
it's all in

1306
00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:14,800
the book i wrote with anne after she

1307
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:17,440
died the afterlife revolution

1308
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:19,520
and you know there's such wisdom she's

1309
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:21,200
had given me such

1310
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:24,640
wisdom in in her afterlife

1311
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:27,359
among the things that she said that are

1312
00:53:31,510 --> 00:53:28,160
great

1313
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:31,520
are the human species is too young to

1314
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:32,480
have beliefs

1315
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:35,040
but we need are good questions and but

1316
00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:36,800
the other one that i think is

1317
00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:39,839
is it's a it's a

1318
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:42,880
life aim that is

1319
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:46,079
not reachable probably in life but is a

1320
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:48,000
wonderful aim to have

1321
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:50,559
it is that enlightenment is what happens

1322
00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:52,160
when there is nothing left of us

1323
00:54:00,069 --> 00:53:56,800
but love you start down that path

1324
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:00,079
and immediately the dark side's having

1325
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:09,349
quickly you got me choked up um

1326
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:13,440
me too tell us tell us what's going on

1327
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:16,319
with uh with you what else is going on

1328
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:17,200
this new book

1329
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:18,400
again people are going to want to check

1330
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:20,880
out a new world and

1331
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,960
of course the website what's going on

1332
00:54:27,589 --> 00:54:24,000
there

1333
00:54:31,270 --> 00:54:27,599
and what's next what's next for you

1334
00:54:35,829 --> 00:54:31,280
i am writing a book about jesus

1335
00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:35,839
it is not like other books about jesus

1336
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:38,640
are you is the historical aspect of

1337
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:39,359
jesus

1338
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:42,319
important to you or are you okay with

1339
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:43,680
those who understand

1340
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,440
christ consciousness but are a little

1341
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:47,440
bit less

1342
00:54:52,309 --> 00:54:50,160
sold on the historical aspects the way

1343
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:52,319
it's been told to us what's your opinion

1344
00:54:56,789 --> 00:54:54,559
there are two histories of jesus there

1345
00:54:58,870 --> 00:54:56,799
there are three histories of jesus

1346
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,880
one is the secular history of jesus

1347
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:00,400
which you can

1348
00:55:07,349 --> 00:55:05,520
get in a book like zealot by reza aslan

1349
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:07,359
which is essentially that he was a

1350
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:08,880
revolutionary

1351
00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:10,960
there was no there were no real miracles

1352
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:13,119
there was no resurrection all that

1353
00:55:20,789 --> 00:55:17,040
is uh just um hyperbole

1354
00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:20,799
or there is the traditional christian

1355
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:21,599
jesus

1356
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:24,880
he was a god come to earth

1357
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:28,319
there's another jesus that is

1358
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:33,359
unremarked but more important

1359
00:55:37,589 --> 00:55:35,359
three things have happened that caused

1360
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:37,599
that other jesus to re-emerge

1361
00:55:42,230 --> 00:55:40,000
as he said if you do not awaken i will

1362
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:42,240
return as a thief in the night

1363
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:44,880
one is the shroud of turin the moment

1364
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:46,880
the first photograph was taken of it in

1365
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,359
1898 suddenly

1366
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:52,000
we had a picture of him the second is

1367
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:53,760
the gospel of thomas and the third is

1368
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:55,599
the gospel of mary

1369
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:58,559
those three things taken together add up

1370
00:56:03,870 --> 00:56:00,880
to a new vision of jesus

1371
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:03,880
the uh shroud of turin was debunked in

1372
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:05,760
1988

1373
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:09,040
as being a medieval forgery this is

1374
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:09,760
false

1375
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:12,319
it is not a medieval forgery and there

1376
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:15,119
is plenty of science that has been done

1377
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:18,720
since then that shows that it is indeed

1378
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:21,920
an extremely strange object it's the

1379
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:24,880
strangest thing in the world

1380
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:28,960
but it doesn't mean that jesus was a god

1381
00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:32,559
it means that we don't know what we

1382
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:35,200
are just as you said at the beginning

1383
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:35,920
this is the

1384
00:56:42,390 --> 00:56:39,760
central aim of human life

1385
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:42,400
finding out who we are and my new book

1386
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:44,640
about jesus is about just that

1387
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,200
it's about using the example jesus said

1388
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:52,079
to find out who we are and as far as the

1389
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:53,440
idea that he didn't

1390
00:56:59,349 --> 00:56:56,960
actually exist at all

1391
00:57:00,630 --> 00:56:59,359
well that's a very interesting question

1392
00:57:02,950 --> 00:57:00,640
that i address in the book

1393
00:57:04,870 --> 00:57:02,960
extensively i think there was a

1394
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:04,880
historical jesus

1395
00:57:10,710 --> 00:57:08,000
and i think that that the story

1396
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:10,720
the real story of the historical jesus

1397
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:11,200
is

1398
00:57:15,990 --> 00:57:14,559
also a story about a group of initiates

1399
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:16,000
who worked with him

1400
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:18,319
who you can find if you do a lot of

1401
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:20,079
detective work and careful

1402
00:57:24,950 --> 00:57:22,960
reading of the gospels you can find

1403
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:24,960
their presence they're like a shadow

1404
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:27,440
in the gospels they don't really emerge

1405
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:28,079
but i

1406
00:57:31,589 --> 00:57:30,480
i shined a light on them in my book i

1407
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:31,599
hope

1408
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:34,000
um when will that be out that's gonna

1409
00:57:37,510 --> 00:57:35,040
really be

1410
00:57:39,109 --> 00:57:37,520
interesting you know because let me just

1411
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:39,119
interject here a little bit what i

1412
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:40,559
always think is interesting about the

1413
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:41,760
jesus thing

1414
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:44,079
and it's mainly because of my work my

1415
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:45,359
interest

1416
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:47,280
in near-death experience science and

1417
00:57:50,549 --> 00:57:48,480
always throw science in there because

1418
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:50,559
there's still a lot of people who are

1419
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:53,520
don't understand that just because we

1420
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:55,200
don't understand something completely

1421
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:55,520
just

1422
00:57:57,910 --> 00:57:56,559
because we don't understand

1423
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:57,920
consciousness just because we don't

1424
00:58:01,990 --> 00:57:59,119
understand

1425
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:02,000
what anne experienced in that bus

1426
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:03,520
station

1427
00:58:08,069 --> 00:58:06,640
doesn't mean that it isn't it isn't what

1428
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,079
we would term real

1429
00:58:12,069 --> 00:58:10,720
you know but i've interviewed so many

1430
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:12,079
people that have had

1431
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,559
experiences with christ consciousness

1432
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:16,240
and they have a knowing

1433
00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:20,079
and i always want to say that i totally

1434
00:58:25,510 --> 00:58:23,680
accept that on a very very real level

1435
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:25,520
that not it's not just what they

1436
00:58:29,270 --> 00:58:27,680
believed that there is definitely a

1437
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:29,280
reality to that

1438
00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:31,359
but i love the way that and i don't want

1439
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:33,040
to put words in your mouth but

1440
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:35,280
what i hear you saying is you remain

1441
00:58:41,829 --> 00:58:36,799
open to

1442
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:41,839
that not paralleling a historical

1443
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:44,480
figure in the way that in particular

1444
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:45,680
christianity has

1445
00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:48,720
stitched that story together uh

1446
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:51,599
and that there may be discoveries that

1447
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:52,720
we need to make to

1448
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:55,040
understand the connection between that

1449
00:58:58,630 --> 00:58:56,640
christ consciousness that we are a

1450
00:59:02,230 --> 00:58:58,640
co-creator of

1451
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:02,240
and uh and the historical thing there so

1452
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:04,240
any any thoughts on that before we leave

1453
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:05,680
that and then do tell us when that book

1454
00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:07,680
will be out

1455
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:10,319
well uh i'm shooting for january the

1456
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:11,680
15th

1457
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:15,520
i uh that right now is the pub date

1458
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:18,319
uh but it might it might go a little

1459
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:21,520
longer i'm not sure i'm still

1460
00:59:25,349 --> 00:59:24,400
fighting with myself about the title and

1461
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:25,359
um

1462
00:59:28,549 --> 00:59:27,119
that's always hard because it has to

1463
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:28,559
have the right title

1464
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:30,240
the title has to tell the story of the

1465
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:33,440
book in two or three words

1466
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:36,480
and i've always been good at titles

1467
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:40,319
but i always feel that i'm terribly bad

1468
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:42,240
at titles when i'm working on one

1469
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:45,040
so maybe a good title will come soon and

1470
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:47,680
in which case we'll stay on track

1471
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:51,599
uh now the

1472
00:59:58,829 --> 00:59:55,040
the question of what

1473
01:00:02,069 --> 00:59:58,839
initiation is is

1474
01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:02,079
central to an understanding

1475
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:05,280
not only of our own experience now

1476
01:00:10,390 --> 01:00:08,720
because after all as annie

1477
01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:10,400
had a near-death experience and was

1478
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:12,640
brought back by doctors

1479
01:00:16,309 --> 01:00:15,119
this is now commonplace this happens all

1480
01:00:19,990 --> 01:00:16,319
the time

1481
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:20,000
uh this had to be induced

1482
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:22,559
say in the mysteries in ancient times

1483
01:00:25,109 --> 01:00:23,200
you really

1484
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:25,119
did have to be put in a position where

1485
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:26,720
you were dying

1486
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,880
and if you lived then you had been

1487
01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:30,799
initiated and if you died

1488
01:00:34,150 --> 01:00:32,799
then that turned out to have been a

1489
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:34,160
mistake

1490
01:00:38,309 --> 01:00:37,200
uh there was one tribe and i forget

1491
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:38,319
which one

1492
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:42,000
where someone wanting to gain medicine

1493
01:00:49,430 --> 01:00:45,280
medicine would jump off a cliff

1494
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:49,440
and if they lived they had medicine and

1495
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:50,559
if they didn't

1496
01:01:02,470 --> 01:00:59,589
initiation is about getting past death

1497
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:02,480
and it used to be very rare because you

1498
01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:03,920
know how many people are going to

1499
01:01:11,190 --> 01:01:05,359
actually

1500
01:01:13,750 --> 01:01:11,200
because medical science has made it

1501
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:13,760
common this is an initiatory

1502
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:16,559
culture now because we bring so many

1503
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:18,000
people back from the death

1504
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:20,720
from death most of them don't actually

1505
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:22,079
remember anything

1506
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:25,200
but some do and those are initiates

1507
01:01:29,270 --> 01:01:27,599
who do who do remember and whitley you

1508
01:01:30,630 --> 01:01:29,280
were drawing some parallels earlier in

1509
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:30,640
the book

1510
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:32,240
and i'd like you to kind of just string

1511
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:34,480
that out as our time is running out here

1512
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:37,520
between that and the increased contact

1513
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:39,200
with the visitors because both our

1514
01:01:45,670 --> 01:01:40,480
initiatory

1515
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:45,680
you know correlation causation kind of

1516
01:01:50,549 --> 01:01:47,359
thing going on there do they just happen

1517
01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:50,559
or are we misreading that

1518
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,640
well no i don't think so there's a very

1519
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:54,559
much of a correlation

1520
01:01:59,829 --> 01:01:57,280
the visitor experience is initiatory in

1521
01:02:01,829 --> 01:01:59,839
the sense that it overturns your life

1522
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:01,839
and you have a choice either you're

1523
01:02:04,549 --> 01:02:03,760
going to sit there and say well god damn

1524
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:04,559
them

1525
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,400
or you're going to go for it and try to

1526
01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:08,160
figure out what the hell happened and

1527
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:09,839
how you can make something out of it for

1528
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:11,280
yourself

1529
01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:14,640
or you're just going to ignore it and

1530
01:02:18,470 --> 01:02:17,359
the memory will fade and fade into a

1531
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:18,480
state of

1532
01:02:23,349 --> 01:02:21,520
sort of ptsd and there's a

1533
01:02:25,589 --> 01:02:23,359
i think the visitor experience is very

1534
01:02:28,630 --> 01:02:25,599
extensive and that there is a huge

1535
01:02:31,270 --> 01:02:28,640
subliminal level of ptsd in our

1536
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:31,280
in our world and always has been and is

1537
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:33,119
one of the reasons our history is so

1538
01:02:38,150 --> 01:02:34,799
violent

1539
01:02:40,870 --> 01:02:38,160
you know they're they're a big presence

1540
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:40,880
it's not like a bunch of little aliens

1541
01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:41,680
running around

1542
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:44,880
and trying to see what we're up to

1543
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:48,000
this is part of the of the of

1544
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:52,240
the blood of life it's that deep

1545
01:02:59,029 --> 01:02:55,760
and it emerges from time to time

1546
01:03:02,470 --> 01:02:59,039
in the into physical entity

1547
01:03:05,750 --> 01:03:02,480
that happened in the distant past uh

1548
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:05,760
uh and you that's why you see these

1549
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:07,920
images of entities that look something

1550
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:09,039
like the grays

1551
01:03:13,029 --> 01:03:12,240
uh from from different periods and you

1552
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:13,039
have

1553
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:17,359
uh evidence in in uh the the um

1554
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:20,880
in the in the literature of the past

1555
01:03:25,029 --> 01:03:22,960
that there were contacts of various

1556
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:25,039
kinds i mean obviously ezekiel's wheel

1557
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:26,720
and so forth

1558
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:29,440
and it's happening again it's happening

1559
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:30,880
now

1560
01:03:36,549 --> 01:03:33,920
it's a it's a it's a it's a re

1561
01:03:39,910 --> 01:03:36,559
another initiation i think we're going

1562
01:03:43,829 --> 01:03:39,920
into a period of tremendous upheaval

1563
01:03:45,270 --> 01:03:43,839
and that the soul the greater soul that

1564
01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:45,280
we are all part of

1565
01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:48,319
is preparing for it and that's why we

1566
01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:48,640
see

1567
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:50,880
these things that we do that's why there

1568
01:03:54,549 --> 01:03:52,319
is a huge

1569
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:54,559
wave of initiation across the whole

1570
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:55,520
planet on

1571
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:05,029
why those of us who know

1572
01:04:08,069 --> 01:04:07,760
anything at all about what's going on

1573
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:08,079
have

1574
01:04:14,470 --> 01:04:11,359
got to make a personal choice

1575
01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:14,480
you have to choose the good you know in

1576
01:04:17,430 --> 01:04:16,400
the gospel of mary the word god isn't

1577
01:04:20,789 --> 01:04:17,440
mentioned

1578
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:20,799
god is called the good you have to

1579
01:04:26,230 --> 01:04:23,200
choose the good

1580
01:04:27,430 --> 01:04:26,240
well what an awesome way maybe to end it

1581
01:04:30,390 --> 01:04:27,440
right there

1582
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:30,400
um folks it's been or i should say

1583
01:04:33,750 --> 01:04:31,039
whitley

1584
01:04:35,349 --> 01:04:33,760
uh just terrific thank you again so much

1585
01:04:37,589 --> 01:04:35,359
our guest of course has been

1586
01:04:39,510 --> 01:04:37,599
whitley strieber you're going to want to

1587
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:39,520
check out his new book

1588
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:41,359
a new world you're going to want the

1589
01:04:45,510 --> 01:04:43,359
guy's written over 40 books so there's a

1590
01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:45,520
lot to choose from but this

1591
01:04:51,430 --> 01:04:48,720
last one important relevant right now

1592
01:04:52,829 --> 01:04:51,440
and his website excellent keeps walking

1593
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:52,839
rocking along

1594
01:04:59,270 --> 01:04:56,000
dreamland uh excellent as well

1595
01:05:02,150 --> 01:04:59,280
it's been just uh awesome sharing this

1596
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:02,160
time with you thank you thank you so

1597
01:05:05,589 --> 01:05:03,760
much

1598
01:05:07,029 --> 01:05:05,599
well thank you alex it's been a pleasure

1599
01:05:08,470 --> 01:05:07,039
and i'm glad that we finally got

1600
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:08,480
together

1601
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:10,160
thanks again to whitley strieber for

1602
01:05:13,670 --> 01:05:12,000
joining me today on skeptico

1603
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:13,680
the one question i tee up is the

1604
01:05:16,950 --> 01:05:15,280
question i kinda teed up at the

1605
01:05:19,510 --> 01:05:16,960
beginning and that's

1606
01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:19,520
what do you make of the flypaper analogy

1607
01:05:24,710 --> 01:05:20,480
what do you make

1608
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:24,720
of our need to know our ego stroking

1609
01:05:31,990 --> 01:05:28,880
our ego run wild feeling of knowing

1610
01:05:33,190 --> 01:05:32,000
of being an intelligence agent of being

1611
01:05:37,510 --> 01:05:33,200
a magician

1612
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:37,520
of being someone who knows more

1613
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:40,079
boy i get it i totally get it but i

1614
01:05:44,309 --> 01:05:40,799
wonder if it

1615
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:44,319
is as whitley says black magic

1616
01:05:51,109 --> 01:05:47,760
if it is fly paper that sticks to us

1617
01:05:54,309 --> 01:05:51,119
and keeps us in the vortex of

1618
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:54,319
evil what do you think let me know

1619
01:05:58,150 --> 01:05:56,480
no one's coming over the forum i don't

1620
01:06:01,270 --> 01:05:58,160
know i don't know what's up

1621
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:01,280
but uh let me now buy whatever means

1622
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:04,079
necessary got some good shows coming up